Hello, everyone. Before we start today’s podcast, all of us from the B2B Vault fam would like to have a brief moment of silence for all the families and victims recently affected by the mass shootings.
Well, on a lighter note, we’re going to jump right into it. And we’re going to talk about Dick Durban and how much he’s in the news. Again, that guy is just fantastic. Huh? First of all, I don’t understand why he’s on the judiciary committee. The guy has a financial committee. Why is the judiciary committee discussing credit card fees, not the financial committee?
Where are Maxine waters in all this madness? That she’s in the house and he’s in the Senate. So she’s a part of the financial community. She’s on the financial committee in the house. Oh, he’s on the judiciary committee in the Senate. There’s a financial committee in the Senate too.
They’re not discussing any of this. That’s crazy. Yeah. I follow all of these different committees to see what they’re voting on, like marijuana laws, hemp laws, CBD, or anything to do with payments, ATMs, and cash. Like we talked about Maxine waters committee and payment trends, right. And we talked about the bill ensuring that cash would stay as legal tender.
Which needs to go to the house floor and some marijuana bills and some other stuff involving C B, D. They’re discussing things like that, this stuff, I don’t know why. And then yesterday, two or three articles popped, and I was like, wow, man, it’s completely out of control.
No, but it’s like out of control. This one is from a. The capitalist, the capital list shows up to the capitalist. Thank you. And there was a guy who gave a guest opinion. What’s his name? Brewster BEVA. And sorry, it’s crazy because there’s a special session in Florida underway in Tallahassee with the associated industries of Florida, keeping he and.
On what’s going on up there in Washington, DC. And they wrote to Marco Rubio, and Senator Rick Scott, asking them to please oppose the legislation that Dick Durban is crafting up to try to put a cap on credit card fees. In the last hearing, that a guy on there for the national retail Federation and the guy’s oh, the credit system and the United States is broken.
And then they’re discussing how it works in this country and that country. These people don’t understand the credit system. Okay. If all of a sudden the credit system in the United States was the same as it is in Europe and in Australia. let me tell you, retail sales would slow to, we would have, I don’t even know what would happen.
The economy like it’s bad now, it would be very bad. The economy would be way, way worse. We have unsecured credit. They have secured credit. Very few people in those countries have an unsecured credit card. What does that mean for someone that doesn’t understand that? I understand what that means, right?
So what is so let’s explain it. So unsecured credit of secured credit is let’s say you go get your first credit card and the bank says to you, Hey, you need to put a 250 or $300 deposit down and then we’ll give you a credit card. And then you can only spend that money. And another example is in most of these countries, your credit is based on your ability to pay.
So let’s say they decide, okay. Justin makes $50,000 a year. We know Justin’s mortgage payment. Is this his car payment. Is that so Justin’s credit. He can pay us comfortably. without him, without us ex really extending him much credit, let’s say a thousand dollars a month. So that’s it.
That’s your credit? Here in the United States, you can go. I got a credit card. That’s got, I got a couple of them that has six figures on ’em okay. You, I’m not that I’m gonna go out and charge a hundred thousand dollars, cuz I’m not crazy, but that’s what unsecured credit is. And then, over there and these countries, you don’t pay your credit.
They are garnishing your paycheck cause they want their money. Cuz you sign basically it’s a. , you’re getting a loan from the bank and here in the United States, people are spending unsecured credit all day long. Some people pay their bill off at the end of the month. Some people are carrying a balance.
I think I read the average Americans carrying around four or $5,000. That they’re no, I’m just saying. Average person. Some people could be floating more than that. Some people blow up their credit cards and then go bankrupt. They don’t come back to the merchant and go, Hey, Justin sparing grill.
Guess what? Billy Bob who comes in and eat twice a week, he didn’t pay us. He went bankrupt. So he charged over the last year. 7,000 bucks. We need the money back. No, the bank has to eat that. The bank is on the hook. So that’s the difference between secured and unsecured, right? So the bank’s on the hook.
They take a loss and with secured, you are on the hook, right? You don’t pay your bill. They come to get your car, they come to get your. Truck. They come to get your boat. They come to get your house, or they’re garnishing your wages, or they’re taking all your money at the end of the boat.
So the that’s not fun. And also the MIS another misnomer in all of this is that, there’s three, there’s two more misnomers, one Visa’s making all the money. No visa is not making the money visa. What they did is they created the payment. Now everybody’s riding every single company rides on the rails.
Okay. The payment rails, which is run by visa, MasterCard, then American express joined on those rails. They used to be off to the side, discover joined on those rails. They used to be off to the side. PayPal created a credit card using card they’re riding on the rails. Apple pay, created their own thing.
Guess what they ride on the rails. Everybody’s riding the rail, right? And but the banks who issue the credit cards, they’re the ones who are collecting the majority of the fees. Merchants are paying. Okay. Not visa. Okay. So I think a lot of people get this confused too. Like when a merchant isn’t a person, right?
Like a merchant’s a business. So the person paying for a meal. Is the consumer slash cardholder. Doesn’t typically see a fee added to their, some businesses are using cash discount adding, but that’s different, but that’s different. But for the most part, like if I go to a place and it’s $87 for dinner, in whatever cent. And I swipe my card. It’s not like it’s gonna be after I swipe it, it’s gonna be $95 and something cent. No. The business eats the fees. Exactly. Heating the fees. I don’t understand why but they keep focusing on visa. Okay. Visa gets a small chunk of the money. The major amount of the money, the interchange goes back to the card issuers, right?
They’re the ones getting the money and this bill that they’re passing. They’re talking about. The, and this is the Florida bankers association is going hardcore to, and I’m sure other banking associations they’re upset. The Florida credit union association is saying, Hey, this is not just a mega bank issue.
You’re gonna put a big burden on community bank. If they go and regulate this credit card thing, cuz community banks, they issue like a small amount of cards, but it would be very detrimental to them. Cause one, one thing, one thing is like with any time the government gets involved in something, they screw it up so I’ve seen the government, they get involved every time they get involved with visa and MasterCard, figure out some kind.
Work around to whatever they’re doing. So the first thing that happened was the, there was a lawsuit, right? Walmart. So I started in this business 1998 and around 2001, I started my company nationwide payment systems. And shortly thereafter that there was a big lawsuit, Walmart versus. Visa MasterCard. And they said, oh, these check cards started to become more popular.
That’s the card that’s linked to your bank account. And then you guys need to have lower rates on those cards. So then visa created a new category. For the check card, debit card with the visa MasterCard logo. That was the first go. So they, that was a compromise. So they issued it a lower rate. Okay.
Then you went down the road and then Dick Durbin came up with his whole thing. Which was very bad. In fact, there was a number. Let me tell you, I went to go see a couple of Congress, people in Florida, I couldn’t get anywhere with them. They just literally Congress people. And I can tell you so no, but I wanna just say one thing, like I’m in the credit card business now, but before I was in the restaurant business.
Okay. So I was a merchant. So I understand what the merchant has to deal with. You have it on both. You can, so I can see it from both worlds. I can see it from both worlds as a merchant and as a person who’s in the business. So I understand what the merchant has to deal with.
And I understand what the company has to deal with. Alan has your best interests as a merchant. He’s looking out for your best interest because he wants. You to get your, the best rates and then we want to get you the best rates. But the whole thing is that, they’re very upset cuz this could typically put credit unions and small banks, community banks.
This legislation can basically put them out of business because they just don’t understand about this it’s routing and all this stuff. They don’t understand how the business works, how the business works and the thing that Dick Durban. It benefited more to small, to large businesses than it did to small businesses.
Cuz they took away this thing called small ticket interchange for tickets under 20 bucks. And it caused like I was telling Justin it caused this coffee shop guy that we had, their rate was around 2% and then it skyrocketed eight, like 8%, almost 8%. So the, he closed his doors. So you. A lot of companies that makes me mad when I a of time I ever hear a business closing his doors because of like just, stuff, government intervention, man.
That’s tough. So the other part was a lot of those merchants at the time started running to PayPal. And square. No, that cash app wasn’t even ramp then cash app. It wasn’t even ramp. I know. I’m just saying cash app. Okay. Let’s not advertise for them. And and Durban’s calling, he’s calling that the The credit card fees, a free lunch for the banks.
I don’t like any of this. I just don’t think like Dick guys, Dick Derma said that these companies need to stop innovating. No, but he they’re just so in this article, you mean he doesn’t know, that’s what I’m trying to say. , they’re trying to convince everybody that visa. Evil in making all this money and that’s not the case.
Okay. What about this? The banks are the ones that make the bank are making the money, but they’re also taking the risks. So if someone runs up their credit card, bill, the 40 grand, and then they go bankrupt, guess what? They don’t get paid. And you know who takes the losses? The bank. The shareholders take the loss.
They don’t, once you’re taking the most risk, it makes the most money, man. Yeah. If you taking the risk, they should make the it’s the most money, simple business model to me. So then in another article came out through. This was also, I guess this is also an opinion. Apparently there was where is it from payment payments, dive.com.
Yeah. Dot com. So then this one is talking about at a JP Morgan investor conference that. CEO of visa, Al Kelly was asked about regulation. His answer seemed to be abruptly, make the news. He said Dick Durbin as a piece of legislation on his desk, that would impose additional price controls. The reality is that Senator Durban as a bill.
It’s not before anything. It’s just sitting on his desk. He’d like it to be on the floor, but. It’s not, it’s underneath everything. It’s probably buried. I don’t think Visa’s too worried about it, but, I don’t put anything past Dick Durban. He, when he got, when he went, when he did the Durban amendment, they snuck it into another bill.
. And that’s how it passed it. Would’ve never passed by itself. Yes, we did a podcast about it. We did a podcast. We’ll put the link to that podcast and the notes, the other podcasts that are about the, that relate back to this subject. And, in fact Derban had a. Judiciary committee earlier this month and talked about ex excessive swipe fees and barriers to competition.
Okay. Barriers to competition. I press the bulls**t button. Whoa. Okay. Because you got ton of companies out there. PayPal, you can take your money through PayPal, send money back and forth with PayPal cash app Zelle goes on and there’s a ton of these P to P payment apps, right? Venmo, you got, which is run by PayPal.
Then, you got all these payment aggregators out there, PayPal stripes square. He’s not attacking them. They’re charging sky high rates, that are close to we like two and a half to three and a half percent. That’s way higher than a traditional merchant account charges again.
Yeah. PayPal’s charging you from when you get the money to, when you transfer to money when you pay. But also Shopify Etsy’s charge. They were in the news too. Etsy charging 6%. Okay. He’s not talking about them is, but focusing in on visa, then they had a guy on there from the national retail Federation.
That guy doesn’t know what he’s talking about. National retail Federation guy needs a lesson in credit. Okay. He can call me too. I’ll have any of these people on the podcast. You wanna jump on the podcast? No problem. Real quick. That’s a great segue. Go to B2 B all.info. And you can get with Alan. There’s a form for there for you to fill out.
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NPS printer.com. 20% off B2B vault is the code. Use it. Get yourself some business cards. If you don’t have any. So an unnamed aid of dur. Said competitive markets should determine prices. Okay. That makes sense. There is a competitive market and that’s determined prices. If you do more volume, you get lower pricing and so on and so forth.
And there’s a gazillion companies out there who can service your merchant service needs. So that’s out there. So I don’t know why he’s attacking visa so hard. Do you think that there should just be one. No, if there’s cause like the other thing you have, you got medium, you got small, medium, and then like large business, right?
Yeah. I don’t think that comes. What I think that you have to understand is as part of our credit card system, there’s all these rewards miles and all that. And that’s why tell merchants, like you want to add the fi on and do the cash discount program or the surcharge program.
Which was made legal by Durban’s bill, the Durban amendment. Then you should be able to do that because those cards have higher interchange fees. Let me tell you, Congress comes in and says, oh, you can only charge this much money. Let me tell you, consumers are gonna be pissed. All your rewards are gonna be gone, but guess what?
I guarantee you visa and MasterCard will figure out some way around that. Just like they F or everything else, they will figure it out because you know what? Anytime con the government gets involved in private business. Private business makes adjustments. The government moves like a giant ship going across the ocean.
Go, if that’s to make a right hand turn, they gotta call. They gotta check the satellite. They gotta call three guys at the home office. Hey, there’s something going on. They’re not gonna be able to do that, but a business they can just, so they fire up the engine. They gotta more gas, boom, pivot boom.
And all of a sudden. Problem solved. You make a rule. We make a change. So I think it’s wrong when they go and these point keeps pointing at visa, visa. It doesn’t make sense to me. What’s beef with visa. I don’t know. That’s what I’m saying. He keeps blaming everything on visa. Like they’re making all the money.
They’re not making all the money. Dick Durban lost his visa debit charge card 10 years ago. I don’t know. When was it? Did Durban a minute pass? Yeah, like 2010. He lost his visa card, man. I’m telling you something happened. I don’t know. He’s very upset and listen. That was all, what’s really whacked out is I bet you, if we go look and I remember this being in a story at the main funder behind the Durban amendment, donating to Dick Durban was Walmart.
Because they benefited the most, all these businesses, they all said, oh, we’re gonna lower prices. If we get this Durban amendment done, that was all BS. These companies never lowered their prices. They just pocketed to savings because the debit card interchange went from 1.2%. Let’s say to 0.05 and people with a ticket like Walmart over a hundred dollars that of people buying groceries and staples and things like that, where they’re.
Tons and tons of the check cards coming in there. 0.05%. They saved a hun. They said hundred basis points on credit card processing right off the bat. And the small business got shafted by taking away the small ticket interchange. Believe me that affected food, fast food and fast food prices too, because fast food their credit card rates went from 2% up to seven, eight.
What did that do? It got the through higher prices. It got passed onto the customers, but they’re saying visa distorts the marketplace with anti-competitive fees and practices, consumers and small businesses suffer. No con. Small businesses suffer because you guys took away. Government took away small ticket interchange and consumers suffer because now those businesses have to charge higher prices because you took their rate from 2% up to 8%.
Okay. And then he says, oh, if visa would stop stifling market competition, they don’t stifle market competition. There’s companies coming into this business left and you gotta finish what he said. Huh? No, the stifling. I know I’m just talking about I’m addressing the stifling market competition. And then when it comes to innovation and the credit card and debit card systems, there’s stifling innovation, there’s FinTech.
The word FinTech has been popular for the last two years. Every company wants to be a FinTech company. Every FinTech company has a paint, has a product that processes credit cards and there’s. Tons and tons of those. And they’re all payment aggregators, and they’re all processing credit cards. So what is he gonna do?
Is he gonna is he gonna start regulating all the payment aggregators do because he’s attacking visa? I don’t, there’s a bigger percent, a lot of merchants use payment aggregators to process payments. I’ll name off a bunch right now. PayPal Stripe square Etsy. Shopify toast is one. There’s a whole bunch of other ones, right?
Small ones. There’s a whole bunch of these payment aggregators out there. So Durban does not understand the business. His committee doesn’t understand the business. The people testifying are just whoever hand pick people that a lady in there from some grocery store. Oh, our fees went up. They’re come on. I don’t buy that their fees went.
First of all, grocery store has the lowest profit margin, right on of groceries where they make their money is in the deli, the bakery, all the prepared foods, that’s where they make their money. They don’t make money off of lottery. Huh? Lottery, but I’m saying they don’t make their money from just like the grocery staples.
No, every grocery store’s got a pharmacy in there. These people are killing it when it comes their money. You wouldn’t, Publix, they put a pharmacy in every one of those places. Yeah. There’s a reason they didn’t put Walmart, put a pharmacy. Why profitable? Why else would they have a pharmacy?
Makes sense to me, man. I’m just saying grocery stores, not a grocery store. Like it was 20 years ago. Oh no. My mom worked at grocery stores, my whole entire and they going Walmart, they got an eyeglas door. Some of them have a salon in there. A nail salon, a hair salon. Whatever they got bank. I saw, Walmart, even as banking inside their Western union.
Yeah. Some of them do most of them. Yeah. They have a thing where you can go pay your bill. Oh yeah. You can definitely give money from Western union at yeah. Some Walmart. It’s not all of them. And that happened when they got some. Yeah. So I’m just saying, so they’re like, oh, the need for, and a visa would stop stifling every.
Visa’s not stifling anything. They’re allowing all these people to come and stifling them with the fees in innovation. They’re not stifling anybody. The Durban amendment created more problems than it solved. Okay. It created more problems than it solved. Okay. That’s one thing. And I could prove that and they could call me before Congress and I can show them what the heck I’m talking about.
Cuz they don’t know. And. And then visa didn’t respond. They don’t care what Dick Durbin is saying and they don’t care. And then I don’t think any of us should. But I don’t think they care. And the other thing is that cuz he didn’t really elaborate on it. It says in the article, but also, who’s gonna who’s gonna oppose this banks, credit unions, community banks, all the card issuers.
The car credit card holders. I divide everybody basically in two group. And you could say there’s three groups, but there’s basically two groups. Two groups are this 50% of people are using their debit card all the time. So the money’s coming outta their bank account and this group of people has credit and they’re using their credit and they’re getting points, miles, cash back, cetera, et cetera.
On their card and they like. Cause if they didn’t like it, they wouldn’t used the product well, and now even debit cards are given out point given out discounts and stuff. So for example, like I’m at truest bank. I like them. They’re nice. Used to be BB and T before that was bank Atlantic.
Now it’s truest. It’s all, it’s three banks together, BB and T. Bank Atlantic and SunTrust now is truest. Oh really? Yeah. And they start closing a bunch of the bank branches down too. Mostly the SunTrust. That’s what I was gonna say. I don’t see those. That’s the one with the, like the te and the, yeah, it had a sun in the, yeah, but they started closing a lot of the, I noticed a lot of branches closed, empty bank branches, so whatever some other bank will come in there and open up a.
In those locations goes, guess what? There’s already a vault in there and Bulletproof glass and all that 30 there. They probably left it. There’re not gonna take it apart. It’s all gotta be when people go shoot a podcast inside of a vault, that would be cool. I don’t know if someone would let us do that.
You could ask, but that would be cool. Just even the text, do a real, like a couple of photo shoot inside. Yeah. A couple photo shoots. So the whole thing is this, the credit card fees, and also let’s talk about in. So innovation, you got all these FinTech companies doing innovative products to help people move money and make payments.
You have buy. Now pay later. We saw a story where apple pay is gonna offer a buy. Now pay later thing. MasterCard is coming out with a buy now pay later feature, which is scary for all the affirms and Klarna. And then and then there’s one of a couple of those companies announce that they’re gonna offer a physical credit card.
Right as well, which allows you to do buy now pay later that I would probably apply for one of those credit cards and also like Bitcoin. You have these Bitcoin Bitcoin companies and they partnered with MasterCard and they’re issuing out credit cards where people can spend their crypto or earn crypto with their credit cards are like jewelry stores and other, are they adapting to buy now pay letter?
Not so much of ticket’s too high, cuz it’s limited ticket size on retail products. And that’s because if you put it on a credit card you don’t have to pay like, say you buy a $5,000 watch, you don’t have to break that up in the four payments. You can pay that for a whole year if you need to.
But I’m just saying that I get it. I was just trying to think of what else it could be used for. But, I suppose if you had the money, you could still do the, by now pay later thing. Yeah. I think that some of those companies have a ticket size, like 500 or a thousands. It doesn’t work for like a luxury product.
Okay. Okay. That’s I think that’s probably the question I was really asking. So a lot of it’s used for like smaller purchases, a hundred, 200 pair of right pair of shoes. You don’t want to pay right away. And the bot, like we have one company that has buy now pay later and. payments monthly four payments monthly.
And there’s another one that does that. One only does services, higher ticket service items. And another one does physical items, but it’s payments every two weeks. Yep. You have to know what you’re new doing when you’re using that. I had never used them before and I was interested. So I signed up and I bought a pair of Clarks wallabies and that’s how I’m paying every two.
It comes out every two weeks. Okay. That’s cool. It is. It’s, I’m not super rich it works for me. Yeah. Listen, I tried it out just to see how it works. They, in the opinion piece they were saying in Durban’s information that the average, the credit card.
Fees opposed by visa, MasterCard, they don’t even mention American expresses fees are higher or discover fees are a little higher, was around 2.2% average. I can tell you Google pay apple, pay others, Shopify ETS. Oh yeah. PayPal stripes where they’re way more than 2.2%. And if you don’t have a traditional merchant account, You’re not getting the special 0.05 Durban rate.
And then they’re saying, oh, the amount on the debit card fees was like 0.7, 2% overall industry, but I can guarantee you, they’re not calculating in there all these other third party companies, the payment aggregators, the payment aggregators. And then they were talking about now there’s increased debit card usage.
There’s increased rise of eCommerce return to travel. And obviously, if there, if you have inflation or stagflation or whatever you want to call going on right now, then prices go up. Obviously you’re gonna have more credit cards being used, cuz people need to use their credit card to pay for stuff, to stretch their dollar more.
And also, during, during the last probably five years to move away from Check cashing you, didn’t getting a paper check at your job and then going and deposit it. That’s all kind of disappeared in the last five years, everything’s gone to direct deposit payroll cards, things like that.
Take a picture with your phone. Yeah. Take a picture with your phone deposit to your bank account, so that’s causing increased thing, but also when you have inflation prices go up, right? So now we’re have inflation as 8%. So let’s say prices went up eight to 10%. Okay. That means people are spending eight to 10% more for the same thing they were paying for a year ago.
Oh yeah. We were talking about this. We were just talking about it last time we went to the grocery store. You could see it in the prices, yeah. There’s so stuff more. So when someone makes a charge, of course the price went up. It’s ridiculous that, that stuff that they’re talking about doesn’t make any sense.
Agreed. It doesn’t make sense. Don’t be. Don’t be down on visa and MasterCard. And, Congress is trying to say, they’re the evil empire, the whole they’re taking visa and MasterCard to apply a service. If businesses don’t want to use that service, there’s other services you can use, but they’re gonna be way more expensive than a traditional merchant account.
And then, yet people have to understand and we’ll put a link in, I don’t know which podcast is coming out first. So we doing another podcast about. Payment aggregators versus a traditional merchant account. And you have to understand how these work, and I don’t think that Congress understands how business works.
I don’t think they understand what a merchant account is. I don’t think they understand how the merchant fees work. I don’t think they understand. The difference between the credit system and the United States and the credit system outside of the United States. I don’t know. I get pretty hot about this subject because they can come in and a lot, man, so no, I’m just saying they can come in and do some more government intervention.
But it’s just gonna it’s none of that’s gonna, they can’t say like, when they say visas, stifling, innovation wrong. When they say visas charge high fees, that’s wrong. They’re just, it’s just not right. I think that visa could make some adjustments. They can call me on the phone visa and MasterCard.
I’ll get, bring back the small ticket interchange, want to help small businesses. They announce some like 10% thing. Yeah. I don’t know where or who’s getting that 10%. I don’t even see it reflected on the inter. Tables right. Or how that’s even gonna work. I haven’t checked some of my merchant statements.
I didn’t see it in 10%. Not gonna really do much because 10% of 2% is like two basis points. Yeah. So that’s nothing, they can literally make a big, bigger splash with bring back small ticket interchange. That’s gonna help a lot more businesses. A lot more businesses will see the effects of that and it will help them.
So overall, thank you for listening to the podcast. If Dick Durban, maybe you. Get him to call me and he can have me come up there and I can give them, I can give them literally like a lesson and about an app. I would say I would take me an hour because I would have to make him shut off their phones.
but probably like an hour, but I wanna have Dick Durban in there, Jim Jordan. We have Marco Rubio, Rick Scott let’s get the, whatever. They should have the financial committee from the house and the Senate. And I can get up there and I can explain to them, in plain language, one of my friends told me, he goes, I listen to your podcast.
He goes, you try to make merchant service. It’s fun and enter our thing. And. Keeping it light. And also, that I take complicated, I’m able to then complicated subject and make everybody like, give you a better understanding from a complicated subject so I could draw them a picture.
And then they would really understand one, the complexity of the whole system that’s going on. This whole complex system. I drew just in a map of it one day, it was. Wow. That’s crazy. It’s a lot of moving parts involved. Yeah. There are a lot of moving card process things happening in the, and things happening, authorization captures settlement, all these things are happening.
And I think if they understood, like what this what’s actually going on and where all the money is going, they, would have a better understanding. And then I could point out ways on the interchange chart that could basically. Maybe they can, whatever visa maybe they would voluntarily, say, okay, let’s bring back small ticket interchange would be a big shot in the arm, in the economy right now.
I believe let’s just put it that way. Listen, if you’re a small business owner, you’re listening to this. Write your Congressperson. That you want Dick Durban to bring back small ticket interchange. I should start a webpage, bring back small ticket interchange. We should maybe start a petition. We can do that.
Yeah, we should do that. We’re gonna look into that. We can do it. Start a petition, bring back a small ticket interchange and we’ll send it to Dick Durban. Ask him to bring it back. It will help small business owners go to B2B vault dot. Look for B2B vault everywhere, all the podcast networks, YouTube, and social media, we’re there go to our community page.
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