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What’s up everybody? It’s Justin Live from B2B Vault, the Payment Technology Podcast with your host Alan Copeman, and we’ll be providing you educational information about business payments. FinTech, decentralized finance and the technology businesses use in today’s world. And in today’s podcast we’ll be talking about asking the question, are people really upset about these credit card fees?

I’m sure if you’re not living underneath the rock over the past couple months, You’ve been seeing Dick Durban in the news trying to get another amendment to this, the Durban amendment that Yeah, he wants to have Durban 2.0. And on top of that, since in the last year really people were starting to really notice like all the different fees on their credit cards when they were going out to eat during the pandemic and, so the credit card fees thing has just been a constant.

Yeah. And also interest rates, the Fed is raising interest rates and they raise the interest rates. Now they’re talking about raising interest rates again. Yep. Which, Directly affects credit cards and the balance people carry on credit cards and also on, like someone, you go get a car loan and or you’re gonna go get a, like I was looking at car loan rates, they were pretty high, six, 7%.

They were like 1%. One 2% for a long time and home loans. The interest rates are up on home loans and on credit cards. People are ca it said in an article I was researching like a few articles today, and one of them said the average person is carrying over a thousand dollars. Then they were last year.

And also, people’s house payments are going up because interest rates go up. If you didn’t have a, a fixed mortgage, Yeah. Your interest rate went up. If you had a variable, mortgage insurance, everything, all costs of everything went up across the board. Insurance property tax, because you know the town, wherever, they have more expenses.

That, most of which I would say is a lot of it’s def definitely related to inflation and gas. , and so there’s a lot of people, and then customers go into businesses and it’s been very popular, especially since the Covid even before that, even before Covid, you had the Durban amendment.

Was quite a few years ago, and that gave people the ability to basically add a fee on to the purchases. And now that’s become accelerated and more and more businesses are doing it. And there, there isn’t really, I personally think that it depends on the business and the level of competition that business has as to whether or not there’s gonna be any blowback.

What do you think? Yeah, I agree. Because I fees are fees, right? There’s always gonna be a fee, right? It’s crazy, like Uber, like I didn’t even, like Oh, Went, was in Atlanta. So I took Uber, to and from the airport, and I was looking at the bill and I was like, Man, they feed me to death.

They had an airport fee. They had an airport, they had a. Some other fees on there. They had a surcharge on the bill that all kinds, There was a lot of fees on my bill. It was probably 15 or 20% full of fees. Then you order food online from a restaurant, you compare it to like their website. The prices are usually 15 to 20% more.

And I noticed a lot of restaurants started. Especially customers of ours started using software that basically gave the delivery services a 20% higher price so that the, they weren’t losing money cuz many of them were losing money. Because they were getting charged 20% and then barges and restaurants are not that high.

No. So like you’re saying, like for a, I don’t know. Value meal or something that’s 12 bucks, through Club Hub. It’s 20% higher than what you would pay if you just went to the restaurant. And did a pickup. Yeah. So it’s cr, fees are just hitting people everywhere like I get, and people don’t understand, like people don’t, obviously, I don’t know man, We cut.

We’ve been talking about this a lot, right? Yeah. The credit card process. The credit card, the com, the logo that’s on your card isn’t charging you those fees? Yeah. The fees that mean there might be a few fees. That’s for the business, paying the interchange fees. Yeah, we talked about like how does the pie get cut up for that?

Hopefully we’re gonna, we’ll do a podcast about, we’re gonna have somebody, hopefully have somebody contacting John Rose who spoke at a event we were, I was at that. We attended the National ATM Council and we’re gonna reach out to him and get him on the podcast and talk about. Interchange fees and what’s that all about?

But this is more like from, I’m, we’re discussing now like more on the consumer side, like how is that affecting people? So in one of the articles I read today, it said 85% of card holders. Knowingly paid an extra fee on a recent transaction. I can believe that. Even like I look at stuff, bills I get regular bills.

I love the convenience fee. Yeah. They have convenience fees, Fuel surcharge, That’s another one. That’s a big one. Yeah. I see that on a lot of stuff. Like we get delivered, we’ll get a fuel surcharge fee added to the bill. Ups started with that. Then it said 20%, 21% of cardholders who said being asked to pay the fee during their transaction harmed merchant sat harm.

Their satisfaction was the business. So then being asked I don’t know why anybody would ask, they just put it on the bill. I’ve never seen Do you mind if I add an extra 25% to your bill? Yeah, it’s crazy. Listen, I would be upset. I tell every, everybody don’t go to Miami out to eat. Like literally like the last time I was in Miami, I went out to eat.

I was in the area, Fort Lauderdale. That too, on Miami Beach. I’ve seen on the beach on Fort Lauderdale. Yeah. But I haven’t seen, It’s not the same. It’s not, it’s high. So like I was there and I was like, I didn’t realize like the restaurant, even though it had an entrance, I didn’t know it was part of the hotel, whatever.

There was hotel tax on my bill. There was a hotel surcharge fee on the bill. There was a 1% homeless. Oh yeah. I’m not talking about all that. Yeah, I’m just saying. And then they added the tip 18%. I was like, Man, I started adding all that up. I was like, Are you kidding me? That added like 35% to my bill more than I believe it.

And I was like, that’s just nuts. Between the sales tax, the 1% homeless tax that had a district tax, hotel tax, a resort tax, I’m like, Percent homeless tax. Huh? Huh? Yeah. 1% homeless tax on Miami Beach and no. How much was the hotel surcharge? No, there was a percentage. How much was the percentage? I don’t remember.

It was like 6%. I was like, Are you kidding me? I’m paying 1% for the homeless guy, so but I’m paying an extra 6% because the restaurants located in a hotel. . Okay. And then they have all these district taxes everywhere, like Gulf Stream has it Mid Beach. Explain to them how that works. What, How can they have all these fees on there?

Because the government wants to collect it and the business doesn’t want to pay it. So the business just passes it through to the customers cuz they don’t want a business, can’t absorb it anymore. There’s too many fees. I, you have to pay your. You gotta pay your employees, you gotta pay your cost to goods.

Then the government wants to tack on five mil, wants to tack on a bunch of taxes. What are you gonna do? You’re gonna have to pass those taxes on somewhere. Either that’s coming outta your profit or you gotta have the customers pay it. That’s why prices are going up, right? And then prices, prices are going up.

Then it says 56% segment of card hold Users who say being asked to pay a surcharge made them highly likely to switch to another merchant. I’ve never had a merchant ever ask me to pay the surcharge. If I see it on my bill, I’d just go, Okay, and what, can you explain this? What is this fee right here? That’s, Acceptable question.

They’ll usually say, Oh, if you pay cash, you don’t have to pay that. Yeah. And then you don’t have cash on you, so you just pay it. Maybe the next time you bring cash with you, I always bring, there’s this one, she, it’s a woman I can’t remember. Anyway, older woman and you walk in the store and literal.

If you don’t got ca, go get some . We have, She does not want you to pay with card. We have a few clients that. That, do that, do this. They put fees on. I can tell you they get very little blowback from the customers. None of them. I’ve had literally dozens of business sign up to do, they charge an extra fee.

, and I’ve only had one customer in the last few years that we’ve been doing that. One customer, basically their employees sabotaged it. Meaning? Meaning like they told the customers they came in the store, that the business owner was cheap, so Wow. So customers got upset. So the guys stopped doing it, but, But other than that, I think most businesses can withstand it, and I think consumers understand, like there’s surcharges everywhere.

I even saw Dominoes now they’ll give you a discount not to get the pizza. To come pick up the pizza, you save 20%. Really? Yeah. Never have a commercial pick up your pizza. Save 20%. They don’t wanna pay. Those fees seem right. And then I saw an article about some stuff regarding business to business.

So they were talking about how that business to business companies shouldn’t put the search they. One, they should accept credit cards. , and many businesses like do large transactions, don’t accept credit cards. And they should accept credit cards because it will speed up their paint, the money, like they’re getting, which we’ve talked about all the time, getting, What do you mean the big, like doing, let’s say you sold concrete, you sold.

And builders come and they pick up the cement from you. Like raw cement? Yeah, whatever. Powdered concrete bags of concrete. Yeah. They come pick up bags of concrete or pallets of wood or, But I don’t take a credit card. Yeah. And you don’t take credit cards. So they send people an invoice or the people have to drop off a check.

And sometimes the businesses have to give somebody terms. It was funny, and I was talking on the Zoom this morning to this guy, a guy that just happened to see him on LinkedIn, came across, a post on LinkedIn was a company called two t w o. . And they’re located in Europe, so they do business in United Kingdom.

Ireland, Germany, the Netherlands, and what they do is they basically help businesses that, because over there they don’t really, Europe doesn’t have the same kind of credit that you do in the United States. I always talk about this at. That Congress doesn’t understand how credit works. Credit in the United States, everybody has this, all this unsecured lines of credit.

Over in Europe, all the credit is basically secured, right? So when, let’s say ju, let’s say I had a business in England. , Justin needs to buy whatever, $50,000, 50,000, whatever they have in England now pounds, yeah. They went back to the pound off the Euro, right? So it’s 50,000 pounds to buy.

Justin needs a bunch of these, right? So if Justin doesn’t have the money, There’s basically a couple of choices. Choice number one, Justin puts it on his personal credit card. Choice number two, Justin just forks over the cash and pays choice. Three. I give Justin terms, and that’s what many businesses do in the us.

They say, Oh, You have 30 days to pay 30. We’ve talked about this. Turns into 60 turns. 60 turns into 90. And then, with the economy today, you gotta be really careful. Do you want to extend all these deep credit, or let’s say you have a customer that has, you’ve already extended them. Let’s say, I’m not giving anybody credit.

No, but I’m saying, let’s say you already extended somebody. Now you have to say to them, Hey, sorry. When you come in, you need to bring us a check. Why not just say we take your credit? And then take credit cards from the person. But a lot of businesses are still resisting that. And also, doing, setting up for electronic invoice payments so people can pay by credit card or ACH for their goods and services at, in a business to business transaction and with interest rates going up, businesses need to consider that you know more and maybe not worry.

This guy was saying, don’t charge a surcharge, just absorb the credit card fees cuz you’re gonna get paid faster and you’re also not gonna have to access your line of credit, which is probably costing you three, four times what it was two years ago. It’s crazy cause of the interest rates are up cuz when you have a line of credit, it’s always prime plus.

, so whatever the prime rate is, plus whatever the bank wants to make. That’s what you’re paying on your credit line. So they were saying that it’s very negative. I just think that if your business is unique you provide a unique type of service or a niche service, or you have a niche type of business, that it’s probably easier to get away with it.

If you own a tire shop and there’s five tire shops on the block, Maybe you can’t charge a surcharge because there’s five places somebody could go to. I don’t see that many restaurants doing it right. I see bars doing it because I think that’s a unique business. You have a bar. People go to the bar, they don’t.

They’re spending money. They don’t really care. , especially after a couple of beers or a couple of drinks. Real quick, before you get back into it, man, shout out to all the followers and the subscribers. Please head over to YouTube. Subscribe to the channel B2 B Vault, the Payment Technology Podcast. Follow us on Twitter, Instagram, Facebook, TikTok.

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You’ll be making money in no time. Yeah. So what else you got, Bud? No. So there’s just, there was just a lot of data and a couple of the articles about what kind of restaurants. What kind of places were doing it? So they were saying local restaurants, a lot of local restaurants, not people have paid a surcharge at a local restaurant at least once.

Never asked to pay a surcharge. I don’t think anybody asks you to pay. I know that’s a weird question. I’ve never in my life been to a place and they were like, Is it okay if we charge you this extra fee? And then I would say no. So but I’m saying, I don’t know why they would say they were asked.

It just seems a little bit, They said they’ve, and then it’s said 24% where have never been asked. And 18% said they were unsure and. About 17%, No, 20% said they were, they saw the surcharge and then they paid with cash. I think a lot of people don’t understand, but I think that there’s gonna, there that, especially Dick Durbin doesn’t understand there are alternative payment methods.

Can I ask you some? Yes. Like for your, for instance, like you’re talking about Miami, right? That’s a huge big city, right? It’s a huge market. Just hear me out. So say you’re in Grand Rapids, Iowa, Michigan, right? And you go in, have a cheeseburger. Yes. Get your, nor, I don’t know how much is a cheeseburger at a restaurant?

So with the fries of soda, you’re looking at what, 1995 . And what, Boy, is it getting expensive? No, I’m just saying. Is that about right? Yeah. I don’t know. I think the other day was National Hamburger or Cheeseburger Day. Yeah, and it’s a bunch of places had sales of both. We should have had cheeseburgers that day.

Yeah. But I don’t know. Wait, so for instance, if you’re going for a dinner for yourself, let’s say 20 bucks. 20 bucks, right? Yeah. So you go and it’s like, all right, so it’s 1887, right? And you go to the cast, register with taxes, blah, blah, blah. And now you have the. In what? The fees, let’s say 4% on 20 bucks is only gonna be 50 cents.

Are you gonna complain? I am not. Even if it’s a hundred bucks and they charge you four bucks, do you think you’re gonna complain? I am not. That’s what I’m saying. I don’t think, I am not gonna go to the atm. Yeah. Or it’s more expensive. Exactly. Or what if the ATM in that’s close there is gonna charge you the fee because it’s not a part of your bank.

Yeah. So now you’re changing. To get a hundred bucks you’re paying 105. So I was talking to this guy, I owned a restaurant, right? And he called me up with somebody else in my business who knew that I did ATMs. So I was explaining to the guy, You wanna buy atm? Put it in your business. The guy’s Yeah.

I’m like, Okay, that’s gonna be about three grand. The guy goes, Three grand. I go, Yeah, it’s a giant machine with a safe, right? Oh no. I literally, I was like, some of them things are $25,000. Big one that goes on the wall. Yeah, but I’m just saying it’s gonna be around three grand with everything.

Standalone guy that you plug into the wall, shipped, somebody come out professionally, install it, program it, train you how to use it, boom. 3000 bucks. Then let’s say you want to charge a surcharge on it for a. Or let’s say you want to charge $2 50. A dollar 50. Cause that’s pretty much how much it is, right?

It’s a non-bank atm. So if I put my card in there, it’s not from my bank, so I’m gonna get hit with a dollar 50 from my bank or whatever they, your bank charges. Some banks don’t. Charge. S a doesn’t have a real, they don’t have a bank, so they absorb the surcharge. They actually pay the machine owner money.

PNC has a partnership with Wawa, so you, Yeah. So if you go in there, it’s like going to your bank, right? It’s like going to your bank. But most likely you’re not gonna have that in a free standing. That is not So then the customer, it’s not normal. No. So then the customer is gonna say a dollar 50 plus another dollar 50.

$3. So I said, What’s the average ticket in the restaurant? The guy goes, 50 bucks. I go, Okay, dude, 50 bucks, 4% is gonna be $2. . So I said, The person’s gonna rather pay the $2 than pay $3 or more off the ATM machine. Plus they gotta walk over there and go get the money. Then you gotta give them change.

What I said is that really gonna, Do you think someone’s gonna really get upset about $2? The guy, never called me back to buy the atm. Cause first of all, how many people are gonna go to the swap that out, right? I’m go to the atm. No, but I’m just saying, let’s say you can do 50 transactions a month.

It’s still not worth it. And then you’d make a dollar a transaction, let’s say. No, I’m just, I’m putting the math together. And then you say you’re gonna make 50 bucks a month, it’s gonna take you five years to pay for the . Not such a good investment, right? No. So I was surprised. And then here’s another quote from the article.

80%, approximately 80% of cardholders who aren’t, Wait, stop. I want this something I wanted to think about. So just, you can get an ATM for $3,000 right now. If I wanted maybe a little less. Yeah, it’s a good business. You gotta be in a traffic business. For me, I look at ATMs like this. Okay? If you want a ATM in your business, okay.

A decent a, okay, good. ATM is a hundred transactions a month. A great at a really good ATM is 200 transactions a month. A great ATM is 300 trans actions a month. Anything over 300 transactions a. That’s, You don’t find that too often. Okay. Now I have some that do more than 300, but they’re located in a special type of business.

Yeah. If you have a, if you have a captive audience, like we have one in a hotel, it’s a resort. You’re not getting in your car driving 20, 30 minutes to clicks. No. Or the bank or the corner. To go save the money and the hotel charge is five bucks for the ATM transaction. You need money, You just paying the five bucks.

Yep. So if you have a captive audience, people will pay on the atm. Yeah. If you have an ATM in your business and you can look outside and see Chase Bank and truest, it’s there. The best Buy. You’re not at the best location for atm. It’s location. So if you’re in a good location, you can do, if you’re doing a hundred trans, like I have a guy in New York, right?

They charge a dollar 25 on the atm, right? It was funny. The average person on my ATM fleet, the average transactions, $140 people take out $140 is the average on that atm, where it’s a dollar 25, the average is 40. Really? Yeah. People take out a small amount of money. They don’t mind paying the dollar 25 and then depend, I don’t know where the cards, I never did a study on, and it does about a thousand transactions a month.

So the guy’s making, he’s given the store some money. The ATM paid for in three or four months. Easy. You gotta have direct, doing eight, 900 transactions, so you gotta have, you gotta have money in the atm, but it says 88% of credit card holders who earn more than a hundred thousand a year are aware that merchants can impose surcharges or fees on their credit card transaction.

I think people are pretty, I think like people take an Uber or they get a food delivery. I think they look more at the convenience of it and they’re not really, People are at the total, Huh? The total. They see the total and they know that it’s high. Yeah. But they don’t sit there and go, Oh, they charge a fuel surcharge, an airport charge.

I don’t think so. Either of that. Are people even, I don’t know. I was gonna say something. No, like we went, like from the office, we order food. Every couple, every. Two weeks, right? Another week. Yeah. Every two weeks or every week. Sometimes we order food for everybody and we go pick it up. I’m like, I don’t care.

I’ll pay the delivery fee. We go pick it up just to say, because the delivery fee is crazy. Some, look at what Adam and Joseph is giving you now. If you go pick it up. Yeah. If you go pick it up, they give you, you give you free cookie, a soda, and you get a deal, like on the right you get a lower price.

Yeah. The price is lower, so you get a cookie and a. You a cooking a drink just for ordering online. And if you do all that, you get free delivery. The, Yeah the free delivery is, Yeah, but you gotta, I feel bad. I won’t always put a tip. So Yeah. I want, we were talking about at the barbershop, it’s a little funny conversation.

So I go to a, it’s called the Neighborhood Barbershop. It’s on CS Trunk. It’s in the neighborhood. I like that type of environment. I love, that’s where I’m from. I’m comfortable around that. Okay, so we’re in there and my barber ordered, his son was in a. and so he ordered his son and pizza.

First of all, like cis trunk, if you’re familiar with this, for Lauderdale, isn’t the greatest known area. Okay. And so it’s getting a lot better over there. I Oh, where? The city’s invest from moved in from when I moved in into what it is now is totally, it’s a 180. The city’s invested a lot of money over there anyway, so Tom Red gets his pizza.

And the pizza guy, he walks up to him and he’s holding the pizzas, but he’s a barber, right? So he’s Can you go put the pizzas over there? And I thought that was normal, right? Yeah. Like I’m the type of person I don’t know if you’ve noticed this, I don’t like being handed things, it’s not like I’m better than or anything. I’m just. , What am I supposed to do with that? Why are you giving me that now? Or, I don’t wanna hold that for you. You can, You’re capable of holding it. So I’m not a, don’t hand me anything cuz we’ll just both. Both be staring at each other, , like I’m serious.

That’s my wife. So the guy he goes, puts the pizzas down and I don’t know, it’s $36 or something. It’s cra it’s crazy how much they charge to deliver a pizza now. And it’s nuts, right? , it was $46. It was $46 for two pizzas. Was it good? Pizza jets? I don’t know that I never had, I don’t, I only get like a gluten free pizza or a cauliflower pizza.

Cauliflower Pizza’s not bad. I’ve only had one Good one though. But so red, he goes to pay the man. And he’s got three bills. I didn’t really pay attention. It’s getting 50 bucks. It’s a $4 tip. The whole barber shop went crazy. What? Like you only gave that guy $4, Like you can’t even grab a pack of, grab a leaf with that.

You know what I was like, It was insane. So I was sitting there thinking, and he looked at me and said, Jay at first he asked me about the, take the pizza thing. I said you did some, I would’ve ne I would’ve did the exact same you did. I would’ve told him to go put it down. That’s his job really, isn’t it? Anyway. Especially if you walk, if you’re at somebody’s house, it’s different hand of the pizza. But you’re in walking into a business. Oh. Can you set that, that around? Yeah. Put that on the table. That makes sense. Yeah. I was like, so that, I was like, I’m totally on board with that, but I was like, Four bucks, bro.

I don’t want the guy coming at my house putting the pizza. No. Yeah. No, you’re not coming anywhere in my house. You’re gonna stay as far back and I’m gonna take those pizzas from you. But yeah, I was like $4 on 46 and they’re not even supposed to deliver here. I was like, That’s a little cheap, bro.

Yeah. I’m, but I’m, No, you didn’t see the bill, so you don’t know. Did they put a delivery charge there? Oh, see, exactly. I did not, We didn’t even get into that. Yeah, we did not get into that. Cause I, It couldn’t have been $46 for two little personal pizzas. It’s great. No, but it could have, I don’t know.

But at the end of the day, the whole tipping. Everyone has their own standing, but I know, but I’m just saying like when you go, like I was on a website with my son. I was like, Dude, what are you doing? Go pick the pizza up your leg not broken. You got a car? I’m like, they’re charging like double the price to deliver the pizza.

So now he went, What type of plea? When it’s $9 for delivery. So now he went, So now my son goes and he picks the pizza up. Yeah, you got, It’s crazy. It’s too much. It’s, I was just, it was just hilarious. Like even there’s a place by my house, like I get food from there every once in a while. I don’t, Maybe a little lazy bucks a little cheap though.

Huh? It’s $4 a little cheap. Yeah. That’s too cheap. Yeah. You gotta give him a tenor, man. I just, I try to give a guy a 10 if it’s $40 or more. I’m gonna probably give you a $10 bill for a tip. Yeah, as long as, So here’s the other figure. They said, are car holders aware that there’s extra charges now? And I like when they say These are hard holders.

Is the customer aware that there’s extra charges on their bill? I am. So 71% said. 18.9% said on some purchases they were aware and 10% said they weren’t aware at all. And how are you not aware at all? They don’t look at the bill. Then obviously you have a ton of money and it said people that make less than 50,000 a year didn’t really, don’t really didn’t even really care.

They track three, three levels of income. It’s really weird. Maybe, I don’t know. It’s, to me it’s Yeah, I was gonna say, you asked somebody under 50 grand a year, they’re gonna be looking at the, how much is the gratuity involved included in there already? How much is the delivery fee? But, so here’s where they’re talking about who was upset with it the most.

So there’s that. Baby boomer boomers and seniors were upset. Generation X was upset. Bridge Millennial. I don’t even know what that is. I guess I, cuz I’m born in 1980. Millennials were upset, and Generation Z wasn’t too upset. And then it’s crazy how many people, like 85% do not lift paycheck to paycheck.

82% said. They live. I don’t see how that all comes up like that, but it’s just I don’t think people are really upset cuz otherwise you wouldn’t take Uber, you wouldn’t use any of these delivery services. Even when you go buy a ticket for a concert, dude, it’s a little crazy. Ticketmaster. Yeah, come on man.

Ticketmaster. I just bought ticket to go see Adam Sandler. I will never use the on, I will go to the. You can’t even get a ticket at the venue if You can when you go there night at the concert. Yeah, but you’re not gonna get a ticket to Adam Sandler tonight at the concert. That’s not happening. You never know.

I’m just saying. I don’t, Yeah. Then if you have to buy one from StubHub, Pave even more than the right than the cost. The Adam Sandler, he announced one show. It sold out. The tickets were insane. Okay. Insanely priced. No. I was sitting at home and I see. Think home up on my Facebook. Oh, Adam Sandler announced his second show.

Oh. The tickets were much cheaper. Oh, really? But yeah, but still came out to, with all the fees that they added on. Okay. , I don’t want to say how much it made. The tickets 300 bucks a piece Almost. Whoa. And the tickets were like two 20. So to see Adam Sandler. Yeah. What’s he gonna do? Stand up. Yeah. He’s got some new material out.

I hope so. It’s been, I had tickets to see Adam Sandler for my 60th birthday, so that’s almost three years ago. I Hopefully he’s not saying the same jokes. No. But I love Adam Sandler. It’s my favorite comedian. He says, Big shout out my, one of my favorite movies of all time. Don’t Mess With the Zohan.

And then Adam Sandler just made this basketball movie. That’s a good movie. And it wasn’t like a typical Adam Sandler movie, but knowing that, I know Adam Sandler loves basketball, cuz probably in almost every movie he’s in, there’s always some kind of basketball or sports or something. Yeah. In every movie.

And a lot of his movies he’s a Yankees fan. I don’t know who he likes. He lives down here in Bo. He lives in Florida. Boca it down. Yeah, he’s from New York. He hangs out at the Boca Resort. He’s from Brooklyn, right? I don’t know where he’s from. Adam Sandler pretty sure. I He’s pretty famous from Saturday Night Live, yeah. That was a big group of people. But some PE then they ask what share cardholders who have never been asked to pay a surcharge. What’s, What would they do if they were asked? So that’s 50. I don’t believe this right here. 58% said they wouldn’t pay the fee. 30% said they weren’t sure and 12% said they would pay the fee.

I would like to know how many people that you guys interviewed for this. They interviewed, It says they interviewed like 2,600 people, Approximately. Really? Yeah. They interviewed. That’s more than I thought. So that’s why they interviewed 2,600. These, It’s tough. I don’t know. It’s a tough, it’s a tough thing.

Businesses are suffering, right? How do you, how much can you and prices are fluctuating, like what you like even, Okay, so give you an example. We sell printing, we also have this printing company, MPS printer, right? And people always see all this stuff. It comes from shout out BS printer for this be great.

And our great graphic designer, Samantha, yes but to tell you the truth, Printing is like completely outta control. So they’ll have a shortage on vinyl, right? This is not made from vinyl, this banner, but a lot of banners are made from vinyl. So all of a sudden there’s a shortage of this material and then all of a sudden you go onto the website, we can’t even quote somebody a price or have a price on the website, is the prices are fluctuating, right?

Then they couldn’t get paper, certain times of paper, and they were limiting certain things like brochures to a. A thousand. So we had a client that wanted 5,000 brochures, so we had to wait. We had to place to order five times on five different days to get 5,000. The customer was getting upset and then, I had to call them and explain Hey, there’s a thousand dollars limit, There’s nothing we can do about that.

They’re only letting us buy a thousand, a thousand a day of that paper. So we place the order, you have to, there’s just a shortage. Now they’re sending out stuff. Oh, we’re all stocked up again, right on paper. Unfortunately, I think most of the paper comes from China. A lot of it, I’m not sure.

I just learned some really, one of the stupidest things that I’ve ever heard in my life. The United States of America slaughters all these beef, right? Yeah. We freeze it and ship it out there. Yeah. To get it packaged and then ship it back to America. Yeah. It doesn’t make any sense what the, I seen that about chicken too.

Like I make sure What is the point of that? I don’t understand cuz the labor, they don’t wanna pay labor in the United States. Whoever decided that was cool to do, I don’t like it. Whatever president that made that like that was a part of the process of food. That was messed up. Yeah, it’s very messed up.

I don’t even eat any of it. I’m a vegetarian. I don’t eat any of it, so I don’t care. But , listen, we got to bring manufacturing back to the United States. Yes. For everything We need to bring legalize cannabis so people can grow hemp in their backyard and then we can stop tearing down all the trees.

We can fix the tree problem. We could have paper. Yeah. Where never run out of paper with him, bro. Listen, Ever listen Where my daughter lives have a huge tree problem. It’s not even talked about anywhere on the news because Covid, overtook everything. You know my daughter Beetles? Huh? She got the Beatles in trees.

My daughter lives in Cedar Rapids, I and Iowa. I know, I’m asking. There was a big. There called the Derecho. It was a land hurricane and we should post a link in the bottom of the podcast. There’s probably some videos on YouTube that she did about this thing, but it destroyed an enormous amount of the tree canopy all over Iowa.

Wow. And caused billions of dollars of crop damage. And it wasn’t even a major story cuz the pandemic was. Hike. Joe Biden said the pandemic’s over on 60 minutes we’re free. He said It’s over. We’re outside baby. I would probably bet that the suppress secretary disagreed with him too. I’m sure who was a pretty upset as well.

Yeah. Yeah. Who was definitely upset. Dr. Fauci probably almost had a heart. And then here, this one said that 56% of cardholders who had to pay a surcharge or an extra fee during a purchase. Cuz I don’t wanna limit this, I don’t think people even understand surcharge what that is, but I understand extra fees, any kind of extra fee.

They were very or extremely likely to switch to another merchant. I pressed the BS button on that because you can, You don’t see, Can’t switch to a new merchant. No, I’m just saying, you don’t see people saying, Oh, I’m not taking Uber. You started charging me fees. Oh, I can’t ship with ups. Who else are you gonna ship with FedEx?

They’re charging fees too. Yeah, like what you, You gonna go down the street and you’re gonna gonna, you’re a local corner store. You’re not gonna shop at that store and you’re gonna go down the street and go shop at another corner store. They’re gonna charge you the same. It’s becoming more and more prevalent with businesses to, to char to do some kind of thing.

And then here it said, 40% of cardholders use debit cards as an alternative. 22% use PayPal. 19% of people use use digital wallets. And that’s what I was trying to bring, I think dead numbers way. Probably, it depends on the age group, right? So you’re saying if there is people who are making a hundred thousand dollars a year aren’t using Cash app, PayPal, and Stripes.

That’s what I’m saying. It’s generational. Yeah. But I’m just saying there’s definitely a rise in alternative payments and I think that we’re gonna see more alternative payment methods come into the market. The thing is, for merchants, it’s very hard for them unless it’s, Unless those payment methods are.

Incorporated into their point of sale for any kind of business. Nobody wants to get 20 different deposits into their bank account for one days of business. If I was a business owner, I’ll just eat the credit card fees. And not to deal with getting like 10 different deposits. But I’ve been in businesses, I’ve seen Pay with Chime, Pay with Zelle, Pay with Cash app, pay with PayPal, pay with this.

And it’s all to avoid credit card fees. Yeah, no. And then, I mean we, But then what is that on the podcast too? Like just imagine that business owner trying to manage that like you got you. See how much money’s coming in from Cash App, PayPal, just to, you gotta monitor to make sure it’s the right amount.

Make sure no one’s doing any chargeback. It. Geez, man. So what were the methods used to avoid surcharge? 78% paid with cash. Millennial, yes, at 78% paid with cash. The baby boomers and seniors and Generation Z, 58% people paid with cash. And it said people use the debit card, which that doesn’t really avoid paying these fees.

PayPal Digital wallets, 55%, which probably includes cash app and other stuff. Checks. I don’t know anything about that. Use the different credit card. A bank transfer, used a gift or prepay card used. Buy now. Pay later. That’s even more expensive than a surcharge. Use the store credit card. Cryptocurrency says Generation Z.

21% used cryptocurrency. To avoid paying a surcharge, they probably got charged a surcharge. They just don’t know it. Yeah, I was gonna say, you got, when you cash out the crypto, you’re paying surcharges. So that’s use the peer-to-peer payment app says Generation Z 78%. But see, like when we’re talking about all these alternative.

Methods Biden made that new rule where all those alternative payment companies have to send out 10 90 nines to the business. So that kind of eliminated anything. Plus all those companies now, like cash apps. And that was $600 a year, right? Yeah, but it started when if they saw like a lot of activity, they just automatically put ’em on a business account.

So Cash App, Venmo, PayPal. All of those, their fees are way more than credit card processing right now. I just looked at it. I was like, You’re taking Cash app. I’m like, Do you know that’s more expensive than credit card processing? A person told me, no, I was wrong. I said, No, you better go look at the website.

They went and looked at the website and they were like, Holy, you’re right. Yeah. They didn’t realize that Venmo and PayPal raised their. Venmo and pay, but PayPal’s been so expensive for so long. Yeah. But people think that it’s cheaper because then No, cuz they were using the friends and family deal.

Yeah. And now they got caught and now they’re paying business fees. So they’re like, Yeah. I I guess it’s different. I’ve own a business for over a decade, so it’s like I haven’t really had the leisure of. Money sent to me. Free you? No, I just think that, Cash app was cool with that.

I did enjoy being able to send my daughter 20 bucks, right? Yeah. And she got 20 bucks. You tried doing that with, I mean I couldn’t do that with PayPal if I sent you $20 with my PayPal account cuz it was a business account. They’re gonna, they’re gonna take, get money fees. No, I just think businesses, we have another podcast that we recorded, we’re gonna put out, I don’t know when we’re putting, it’s about, how to survive in the down economy.

Down economy with inflation, And and this podcast we’re talking about like businesses and, what can they do? I don’t think in general, I don’t think, From what I’ve seen, I don’t think there’s any consumer pushback on businesses charging surcharge. As long as they accept cash.

And I don’t think any of the businesses that do it have ever told me like they’re getting extra cash than they were before. , I think people who pay with cash. Pay with cash. People who pay with card. Pay with card. And then, You remember when we were talking about that one woman in New York when she got upset about that cheeseburger?

Yeah, we, Yeah, the cheeseburger and like a $40 cheeseburger or something? Yeah, the bill was like over a hundred bucks. Yeah, it was like a hundred bucks. She got charged $4, but then she got upset about it. She got so upset about it that she ran to the ATM machine, which didn’t make any sense. Cuz did she paid an ATM fee equal to the $4 Probably.

Cause it wasn’t her bank. Exactly. She went to another bank’s atm, paid a $3 fee plus. So she ended up paying more by going to, You were tripping about, you know her. Cause she said like her cheeseburger itself was like $35 or so. Yeah, it was crazy. It was like three ch It was like two cheeseburgers old chicken old.

And no. And a, And then a side of chicken. Yeah. And then they had and it was a brunch, so it was a fixed price, but they had three meals, so it was like a hundred dollars. And then the ladies complained, You tripping about four bucks. Come on. Yeah. And then they, And then the tip was probably 20% easy on top of that, the bill was whatever. And then she didn’t want to pay the $4, so she ran to the atm. And that went a long way because she, like we said, she must have known somebody or something. That, Yeah. Was it covered by the New York Post or something? It spread like wildfire. Yeah. It was all over Facebook, everywhere, but nobody seemed to really, none of the comments in the article.

Nobody was upset that they had to do it. I’m more upset when I go to Miami and they’re adding on a resort tax and a hotel tax or that shouldn’t fall on a consumer. And a district. I’m just saying concern, I would’ve, Okay. So when they’re talking about disclosing, there’s no sign outside the business saying, Oh, by the way, when you come in here, you gotta pay this whole list of taxes.

I wouldn’t probably eat in that restaurant. I wouldn’t either. I’d find someplace else to eat. That’s when you start, you just name it down a list of things. That’s everything that you just listed sounded more like government. Some you the business owner should be paying the city.

I don’t know. How does, how I just first of all, I don’t know how the business owner, you decided to open your restaurant. Yeah. Based a hotel on the beach. Yeah. But maybe the business owner is not making enough. They’re not making, Listen, they’re not making enough money to cover that much in tax.

This. So they gotta pa I guess, they’re just not doing it. It’s just crazy. But I’m just saying it’s you can just, So when they’re talking about these surcharges, it’s not the credit card surcharge. There’s surcharges on every single thing. Like I got my fp and l bill. I was just gonna say that.

It’s on sur surcharge. It’s on your utility bill. It’s on your electric bill. Yeah, my, it’s on your water bill. Like my util like now from my bank. I’ll see On there it says, Oh, you paid F, P, and L, your F, p, and L. Like 12% higher than it normally is been. Yep. And that’s crazy. That’s going up strictly from gas.

Gas costs more. I Abby, the heat, it’s been hot. But I’m just saying as far as I have all my fp and l set up on that budget billing Me too. Where you just pay the same price every month and then they goes up. My budget went up. Yeah, because Did you have to, Did they make you put in more deposit down?

No, they, Yeah, man, they called. Because I guess I, they, you know how they refund you or whatever. So they over refunded me. Oh, they over refunded They gave me too much money and now that the bill’s going up, they need me to put the money deposit back down. I’m like, What did send it to me for

That’s crazy. No, but even my daughter told me in Iowa, she told me, she goes, Oh, my house payment went up 60. I was like, be lucky. That’s 60. I was gonna say, man, mine went up 350. Mine went up almost 600 bucks in the last two years from, and mostly from taxes and insurance. But it’s all this inflationary 60 bucks, man.

That’s nice. So that’s the podcast today. So in the end, Justin, I think customers don’t care about these surcharges. What do you think? I think people don’t care. I think the majority doesn’t care. I think the people who are. Like really making a big deal out of it. Don’t understand it. And I don’t think that they realize that it’s happening everywhere.

That they spend their money. Yeah. Maybe they’re not even looking at all their bills. Exactly. I think if you really look at, if you’re paying your bills online, Yeah. You don’t even see it. You’re paying a fee. Yeah. You don’t even see it. Like I looked at my fp and l bill, they added on all kind fuel surcharge, this surcharge, that thing they’re adding on solar panel.

I don’t even know now they’re saying all this solar panel for free, but I doubt that’s even true. We’ll, see I would like some on mine to just to see what the difference would be that what Some solar panels. Yeah. I don’t know how you can, I don’t know. There’s all a lot of talk about, Oh, you, I see these ads.

You can get it for free, but who knows? Yeah, I don’t, and I don’t trust, I don’t trust it. And also I saw in the words of the big homie, Chuck D, can’t trust it. So surcharges are not going away. If you’re not, if you’re really don’t want to pay surcharges, probably don’t go out to eat, talk to Uber, don’t get a delivery to anybody.

Don’t use their credit card ever. It’s not even that. It doesn’t matter. It’s just, it could be the kind of service you have of whatever you’re getting. You’re sending a package ups, Oh, you’re definitely getting hit with some fees, right? You’re getting hit with fees, you. Post office, you’re getting hit with fees.

Yeah, there’s fees everywhere. There’s all kinds of fees besides credit card surcharges, there’s all kinds of surcharges going on, and I just don’t think, Yeah, I think the, people need to educate themselves a little bit more about where their money’s going in general and what these surcharges fees are.

Who could charge and why they could charge ’em. It’s not a, it’s not like it’s rocket science or anything, man. It’ll take you five minutes to really underst. How they work and where they should be implemented and when and why. They are, like in Milwaukee they have the stadium tax we’re paying a little everywhere.

They we’re paying a little bit money for. Brewer Stadium on our, you know what I mean? For everything. That’s a fee. I’m just saying fees are everywhere with feed fee. Can’t have a nice owner, like the guy owns the Miami, the people that built the Dolphin Stadium, they use any government money.

That’s what I don’t understand, like I don’t think the government should be allowed to build like a stadium for a private business. I don’t think it should be allowed. I should sell the business owner. Hey, you pay for it on a new stadium. Pay for it. That’s what I, that’s my thought process on that. I don’t think, businesses is a, it’s a business, right?

It’s a business. Look at Tesla. Tesla, The guy took millions of dollars on the federal government. He gave it all back. He made a bunch of money. Yeah. I don’t, I can’t really remember the, like the. The situation with the, I know we needed a new stadium in Milwaukee and that the No, but I think couldn’t afford it.

And so they asked to borrow some money from the state. But I think that they should be, That should pay the money back. That people shouldn’t, we shouldn’t be paying it back. Oh yeah, I agree. That’s what I’m saying. You take, you already paying for the ticket, you’re paying for the concession, you’re paying for the parking, you’re paying for this, blah, blah, blah.

You keep going and going, and. So why we gotta pay for the building of the new stadium? Yeah. That’s another sur that could be considered a surcharge. It was definitely a sur. It’s a big deal when that was going on. I like to edit it on everybody’s sales tax. Yep. So now everybody’s paying more sales tax to pay for that.

So that’s today’s podcast. We voted surcharges are not going away. It’s not stopping anybody from spending their money. Nope. It’s not stopping people. Going to restaurants, retail stores, buying tickets, taking an Uber, getting food delivered. It’s not really, Maybe peop, maybe some people are grumbling about it, but I think the majority of people don’t really care.

It’s inevitable. It’s not going away. Certain businesses are gonna do it, right? Everybody keeps talking about the, you want what? You want. This cashless society so bad, you don’t think you’re gonna get hit with fees out. In the back area that’s gonna cause fees to go up higher and higher.

Yeah. And Congress has taken the, They’re not, they don’t understand what’s real, what, why they don’t understand how business works. So that’s a whole nother story. , we can do another hour on business. We can do a whole hour on what they don’t, What Dick Durbin doesn’t understand. Indeed, you could do a whole hour on that.

So piece out. Thanks for listening to the podcast, B2B Vault.

Oh, we gotta.

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